And Still She Shines - Just Like Polished Gold

I spent the day making calls at the phone bank - my voice is shot and I'm tired tonight.  

I've been thinking of this video for the past few days, so I'll let Ms. Jewell Hodges say what I've been feeling today...

Hillary - we're still waiting at the foot of that mountain and you're the only one who can beat McCain and help our nation climb back up to the top.

So take a little while to catch your breath, and when you're rested and ready we'll be waiting to help you get to the top of that mountain again - polished like gold.

Here's Hillary's speech from this evening...

Thank you all so much. Thank you and thanks so much to South Dakota. You had the last word in this primary season, and it was worth the wait.

I want to start tonight by congratulating Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run. Senator Obama has inspired so many Americans to care about politics and empowered so many more to get involved, and our party and our democracy is stronger and more vibrant as a result. So, we are grateful, and it has been an honor to contest these primaries with him, just as it is an honor to call him my friend. And tonight, I would like all of us to take a moment to recognize him and his supporters for all they have accomplished.

Now, sixteen months ago, you and I began a journey to make history and to remake America. And from the hills of New Hampshire to the hollows of West Virginia and Kentucky, from the fields of California to the factories of Ohio, from the Alleghenies to the Ozarks to the Everglades, to right here in the great state of New York, we saw millions of Americans registering to vote for the first time, raising money for the first time, knocking on doors, making calls, talking to their friends and neighbors, mothers and fathers lifting their little girls and their little boys on to their shoulders and whispering, "See, you can be anything you want to be."

I think, too, of all of those wonderful women in their nineties who came out to see me because they were born before women could vote, and they wanted to be part of making history. And the people who drove for miles, who waved their handmade signs, who went to all the events that we held, who came to hillaryclinton. com and showed the tangible support that they felt in their hearts. And I am just enormously grateful, because in the millions of quiet moments, in thousands of places, you asked yourself a simple question: Who will be the strongest candidate and the strongest president?

Who will be ready to take back the White House and take charge as Commander-in- Chief and lead our country to better tomorrows? People in all fifty states, the District of Columbia , Puerto Rico and the territories, all had a chance to make your voices heard and on Election Day after Election Day, you came out in record numbers to cast your ballots. Nearly eighteen million of you cast your votes for our campaign, carrying the popular vote with more votes than any primary candidate in history. Even when the pundits and the naysayers proclaimed week after week that this race was over, you kept on voting.

You are the nurse on the second shift, the worker on the line, the waitress on her feet, the small business owner, the farmer, the teacher, the miner, the trucker, the soldier, the veteran, the student, the hard working men and women who don't always make the headlines but have always written America's story. You have voted because you wanted to take back the White House, and because of you, we won together the swing states necessary to get to 270 electoral votes.

In all of the states you voted because you wanted a leader who will stand up for the deepest values of our party. A party that believes everyone should have a fair shot at the American Dream. A party that cherishes every child, values every family, and counts every single vote.
I often felt that each of your votes was a prayer for our nation, a declaration of your dreams for your children, a reflection of your desire to chart a new course in this new century and in the end, while this primary was long, I am so proud we stayed the course together because we stood our ground, it meant that every single United States citizen had a chance to make his or her voice heard.

A record thirty-five million people voted in this primary, from every state, red, blue, purple, people of every age, faith, color and walk of life. And we have brought so many people into the Democratic Party and created enthusiasm among those we seek to serve. And I am committed to uniting our Party, so we move forward, stronger and more ready than ever to take back the White house this November.

For the past seven years, so many people in this country have felt invisible, like your president didn't even really see you. I have seen the shuttered factories, the jobs shipped overseas, the families struggling to afford gas and groceries, but I've also seen unions retraining workers to build energy efficient buildings, innovators designing cars that run on fuel cells and bio-fuels and electricity, cars that get more miles per gallon than ever before, cars that will cut the cost of driving, reduce our reliance on foreign oil and fight global warming.

I have met too many people without health care, just a diagnosis away from financial ruin, but I have also seen the scientists and researchers solving the medical mysteries and finding the treatments and cures that are transforming lives. I have seen the struggling schools with the crumbling classrooms and the unfair burdens imposed by No Child Left Behind, but I have also met dedicated and caring teachers who use their own savings to buy supplies, and students passionately engaged in the issues of our time, from ending the genocide in Darfur to once again making the environment a central issue of our day.

None of you is invisible to me. You never have been. I see you, and I know how hardworking you are. I've been fighting for you my whole adult life, and I will keep standing for you and working for you every single day because in your courage and character, your energy and ingenuity, your compassion and faith, I see the promise of America every day. The challenges we face are great, but our determination is greater.

You know, I understand that a lot of people are asking, what does Hillary want? What does she want? Well, I want what I have always fought for in this whole campaign. I want to end the war in Iraq . I want to turn this economy around. I want health care for every American. I want every child to live up to his or her God-given potential, and I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible.

You see, I have an old-fashioned notion, one that's been the basis of my candidacy and my life's work, that public service is about helping people solve their problems and live their own dreams. This nation has given me every opportunity, and that's what I want for every single American.

That's why I want universal health care. It is wrong that Americans pay 50% more for health care than the people of any other wealthy nation, with costs doubling this decade and nearly 50 million people without any health insurance at all. It is wrong for parents to have to choose between care for themselves or their children, to be stuck in dead-end jobs just to keep their insurance or to give up working altogether so their kids will qualify for Medicaid. I have been working on this issue not just for the past 16 months, but for 16 years. And it is a fight I will continue until every single American has health insurance. No exceptions and no excuses.

I want an economy that works for all families. That's why I have been fighting to create millions of new jobs in clean energy and rebuilding our infrastructure, jobs to come to all of our states and urban and rural areas and suburban communities and small towns. That's why I sounded the alarm on the home mortgage crisis well over a year ago, because these are the issues that will determine whether we will once again grow together as a nation or continue to grow apart. And I want to restore America 's leadership in the world. I want us to be led once again by the power of our values, to have a foreign policy that is both strong and smart, to join with our allies and confront our shared challenges from poverty and genocide to global terrorism and global warming.

These are the issues that brought me into this race. They are the life blood of my campaign, and they have been and will continue to be the causes of my life. And your spirit has inspired me every day in this race.

While I traveled our country talking about how I wanted to help you, time and again, you reached out to help me, to grab my hand or grip my arm, to look into my eyes and tell me, don't quit, keep fighting, stay in this race for us.

Now there were days when I had the strength enough to fight for all of us, and on the days that I didn't, I leaned on you, the soldier on his third tour of duty in Iraq who told his wife, an Iraqi veteran herself, to take his spending money and donate it to our campaign instead. The 11-year-old boy in Kentucky who sold his bike and video games to raise money for our campaign. The woman who came to a rally hours early, waited and waited to give me a rosary. And all those who whispered to me, simply to say I am praying for you.

So many people said this race was over five months ago in Iowa, but we had faith in each other and you brought me back in New Hampshire and on Super Tuesday and in Ohio and in Pennsylvania and Texas and Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico and South Dakota. I will carry your stories and your dreams with me every day for the rest of my life. I will carry your stories and your dreams with me every day for the rest of my life.

Now the question is, where do we go from here, and given how far we've come and where we need to go as a party, it's a question I don't take lightly. This has been a long campaign, and I will be making no decisions tonight. But this has always been your campaign, so to the 18 million people who voted for me and to our many other supporters out there of all ages, I want to hear from you. I hope you'll go to my website at HillaryClinton. com and share your thoughts with me and help in any way that you can.

In the coming days, I'll be consulting with supporters and party leaders to determine how to move forward with the best interests of our party and our country guiding my way. And I want to conclude tonight by saying thank you. Thank you to the people across America for welcoming me and my family into your homes and your hearts. Thanks to all of you in every corner of this country who cast your votes for our campaign. I am honored and humbled by your support and your trust. Thanks to my staff and volunteers for all those long hours and late nights, and I thank your families and your loved ones as well, because your sacrifice was theirs. And I especially want to thank all of the leadership of my campaign. Our chairman, Terry McAuliffe and everyone who worked so hard. And, of course, my family for their incredible love, support and work. Bill and Chelsea, Hugh and Maria, Tony and Megan, Zach and Fiona and my mother who turns 89 tomorrow. And, finally, I
want to thank all of the people who had the courage to share your stories with me out on the campaign trail.

Tonight, I am thinking of a woman I met just yesterday in Rapid City , South Dakota . We were outside Talley's Restaurant. There was a crowd there as I was walking into the restaurant. And she was standing right up against the barrier. She grabbed my hand and she said, "What are you going to do to make sure I have health care?" And as she was talking, she began to cry. She told me she works three jobs. She has suffered from seizures since childhood. She hasn't been able to afford insurance ever since she left her parents' home. It is shameful that anyone in this country could tell that story to me. And whatever path I travel next, I promise I will keep faith with her and with everyone I met across this great and good country.

You know, tonight we stand just a few miles from the Statue of Liberty. And from the site where the Twin Towers fell and where America rose again. Lady Liberty's presence and the towers' absence are a constant reminder that here in America, we are resilient, we are courageous, we embrace all of our people and that when we face our challenges together, there is no barrier we can't overcome, no dream we can't realize, nothing we can't do if we just start acting like Americans again.

Thank you all very much. God bless you and God bless America.

We can't wait until 2012 Hillary.  We need you to keep fighting for us now.  If you're up for the fight then so are millions of your supporters all over America.

We'll respect whatever you decide to do but I for one hope you take this fight to the Credentials Committee, and then to the floor of the convention.

See you in Denver folks.



Display:


Hold Your Head High Hillary (1.65 / 43)

You've earned it.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:17 PM EST

And yes, I did donate to HRC tonight! (1.66 / 15)

Denver!!!!!!


by CoyoteCreek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:46:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And yes, I did donate to HRC tonight! (1.50 / 10)

SHAME


by Bargeron on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no shame... (2.00 / 4)

...she's entitled to spend her money however she wants.

And if she is looking to 2012, (whether by Obama defeat or another primary with a sitting president...it does happen) well...that's 4 years from now.

Anything can happen in 4 years.


by DawnG on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And yes, I did donate to HRC tonight! (1.64 / 14)

Mark Penn thanks you for the donation


by Bargeron on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:03:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I donated too. (2.00 / 4)

That speech was so amazing. She should be our president.


by catfish2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:51:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And yes, I did donate to HRC tonight! (1.33 / 3)

I've got 119 million dollars in my personal account. I spend 11.4 of it on your dreams. I want it back, dammit. DONATE MORE!!


Not this time.
by jedley on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:16:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And yes, I did donate to HRC tonight! (1.00 / 2)

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice that.

"So I hope you'll go to HillaryClinton.com and... give what you can."  "But isn't the primary... over?"  "Well yes but I'm sort of in the hole, here.  Please help."


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:11:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (1.60 / 33)

This is a trollish diary. Repugnant and has no place anywhere were Democrats convene. Brutally wrong, pigheaded, and divisive. Just utterly disgusting.

2012 will be the re-election campaign for President Obama, just as it would have been if Clinton, Edwards, Biden, Kucinich, Richardson, or any other Democrat won the nomination.

I want to puke.


by mikeplugh on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (1.62 / 8)

Your insults make me want to do the same.


by Tolstoy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (1.80 / 5)

We have been hearing it was over for months.  The Obama people keep acting like having the campaign is hurting the party and not good for theobvious nominee.  We do not have a nominee, not even a presumptive one.  You can't use supers to clinch it.  She is supposed to stay til Denver.  

What are they so afraid of that they just cannot stand to let the process complete?


by itsadryheat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (2.00 / 11)

Get over the denial. It's unbelievable. Every respected member of the media, and every idiot in the media, and many of Clinton's own supporters, superdelegates, and people on the street all acknowledged tonight that Obama is the nominee. 90% of the world knows it's over. I have ZERO problem wanting to celebrate Clinton's efforts, agenda, candidacy, inspirational words and deeds, but let's deal with reality. Obama just took multiple supers from her tonight and is now watching the entire party coalesce around his nomination. Let's be productive and use our energy to work for Obama's presidency, get that healthcare with Hillary's input and power, get that push for labor and education with her cooperation, and support the party that had the will to break the mold in 2008 by running candidates as diverse and dynamic as Clinton and Obama.
by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (2.00 / 4)

Because it is over and if Senator Clinton does not take the opportunity to withdraw now, she will completely destroy her and her husband's legacy and become a villified figure on the order of Joe Lieberman.

It's over.  I'm all for reconciliation, but not with those who continue a fight that is lost.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (2.00 / 1)

And I'm sure you were trashing Kennedy's endorsement of Obama for the same reasons right?  He's divisive, he took the fight to the Convention, he destroyed his brother's and families legacy...blah, blah, blah.

That's all crap.  The SD's don't even cast votes until the convention.  Hillary hasn't indicated whether or not she will contest until the convention or take a fight to the credentials committee.  But the hyperbole that by what was in her speech will destroy her and Bill's legacy is pure fallacy and is just an attempt to continue to demagogue and pound on the Clinton's.

The nomination is NOT wrapped up, because if it was I wouldn't be heading to our State Convention and being able to cast my vote for Hillary instead of Obama.

You can have your version of 'your' truth, but the facts are facts, and you can't change them.  Should Clinton conceed then, all DEM's should even somewhat loosely coalese around the nominee.  They don't have to canvass or call or even participate in the actual process...all they have to do is vote against John McCain and the other down-ticket Rep's come November.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (none / 0)

Why would I trash Kennedy's endorsement of Obama?  Because of a mistake he made 28 years ago?

The credentials committee meme is a canard.  Florida and Michigan could be seated as is at full strength at this point and he would still have the requisite number of delegates.  

You can keep telling yourself that the superdelegates are going to change their mind en masse, but it's not going to happen.  He is the presumptive nominee.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:27:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (none / 0)

Oh and I never suggested that her speech was what would damage her and her husband''s legacies.  But taking the fight to the convention most certainly would.  


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:30:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (none / 0)

It's money.  Obama gets to tap his big donors twice: $2,300 for the primaries and $2,300 for the general election.  Last month, the inexhaustible well started to dry up.  They have $250 or $300 million that opens up once Hillary is shoved out.

Otherwise, Obama is very much better off letting things go on to ther convention.  The Hillary-Pbama battle freezes McCain out of the front page and takes away his earned media on TV.  Since he can't raise money, that's a crucial hit.

Look at the MYDD electoral vote calculations every day.  McCain has been sliding down, not gaining, during the Democratic fight for the nomination.

Take the money out of the equation and Obama, Hillary, and the Democrats are much better off taking this to the convention.


by David Kowalski on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:28:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do they keep pushing for it to be over? (none / 0)

What part of this aren't you getting?

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SEEMS TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT:

Yes, he's not "officially" the nominee until the convention, but he is the "presumptive nominee", which means that barring some colossally unforeseen events, he WILL BE the nominee in August.

The superdelegates could defect to her. But they aren't. The only superdelegates switching sides are the ones who are moving from Hillary over to the PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE'S Campaign.

Howard Wolfson himself said that she will be endorsing Obama this weekend. What part of all of this aren't you getting?

THERE WILL BE NO CONVENTION FLOOR FIGHT.

It's OK to be upset that your candidate lost a hard fought and extremely close nominating contest. But please try to stay on planet Earth while you are lamenting this...

by Obamaphile on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:42:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not cool. (2.00 / 3)

Whether you recognize it or not there has been something of a breakthrough tonight.

Clinton supporters are accepting that Clinton will not be the nominee.  If they want to hope for a future run then that's fine.  (I still hope for a future Howard Dean run, doesn't mean I live for that or will turn my back on a perfectly good dem or languish from disapointment if he never runs again)

Even if Obama wins, that doesn't entitle him to run unapposed for his second term.  It's traditional but it's not a foregone conclusion.

So rather than bash someone for hoping, recognize that Obama has earned 4 years of (hopefully) a working presidency to change their minds and bring them onboard.


by DawnG on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (1.88 / 35)

Troll rating me is bullshit, just like everything written in this "series." You can do it again here, but at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that I'm a true Democrat, a true Progressive, and not some kind of self-serving, tunnel-visioned, fundamentalist who can only see one outcome as acceptable.

If anyone agrees with me, mojo me to fend off the nonsense.

I would have worked to the death for Hillary Clinton if she were the nominee, but the voters have spoken according to the system we all ratified before this began. The outcome has also been ratified by the party as the superdelegates came out for unity. Claiming 2012 as the new target is scuttling the party and the presumptive nominee and I wish you'd go vote for McCain. You're no Democrat.


by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (1.72 / 11)

In fact, to troll or hide rate what I wrote is despotic, undemocratic, unAmerican, and the kind of bullshit that Clinton people boycotted Kos over. Glad to see that you've allowed yourself to be corrupted by the very thing you decried.


by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:27:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 5)

Mike, I'm an Obama supporter, and I want you to know why I troll-rated you.

Alegre has written some of the most slanted, unfair, intellectually dishonest diaries I've ever read. That said, this isn't one of them. This diary is an impassioned expression of support for a candidate. I disagree with the call to action, but it isn't trollish. This diary doesn't attack Barack Obama, doesn't spew false facts, and is totally acceptable under MyDD rules.

There are multiple levels of contention that a diary can fall into. Advocating the losing candidate, even if her continued campaigning may be detrimental to the nominee, is not trolling. It isn't purposed towards divisiveness either. Alegre is acting based on convictions to support a woman with strong democratic ideals and credentials. Her goal is not to undercut Barack; it is to uplift Hillary.

It's very easy to let Alegre's previous posts color your responses to her, but the content of this post does not warrant the vitriol you've shown here. You came to this diary ready for a fight, and understandably so. It's best that we stop fighting altogether, but at the very least, don't create a perceived slight where there is none. Play defense, not offense. We're on the same team, so unless your teammate steps out of line, don't throw elbows.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:12:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 2)

Well said Penguin.


by wasder on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 11)

I'm sorry penguin, you're off base. Troll rating and hide rating are tools designed to fend off people with an agenda to distract, destroy, or disrupt. The tone of my comments may be harsh, but hardly something intended by the forum administration to be troll or hide rated.

Who is more worthy of a troll rating in a Democratic forum, the person who subtly suggests that the new goalpost is 2012, or the person calling them on it?

Make no mistake, anyone with 2012 on their mind on a night when Barack Obama is names the presumptive nominee is hoping for McCain to win. Why else would a Democrat look to that date with anticipation? A contested nomination of a sitting president is civil war. In either case, to pick this night to engage in that kind of Rovian nonsense, is horsesh*t.

So, troll or hide rating me for calling out that sentiment (and never Alegre by name) is abuse of the worst kind. It's exactly what prompted Clinton people to abandon Kos for MyDD. If anyone has 2012 on their mind with respect to Hillary Clinton on this night, they should probably just leave the Democratic Party and start some kind of 3rd party. This is a night for Democrats to be behind the nominee, and I would have said that if the nominee had been any one of the people who bravely stood up to seek the nomination of the party.

Someday this 2012-noquarter-hillaryis44 agenda will be outed for what it is, the biggest cult of personality in the modern history of American politics. Obama is the one with all the criticism of messianic followings, cultish supporters, and so on. What of Clinton? Surely this diary illustrates that whatever has been said ill of the Obama movement can equally be said of the Clinton movement. I will continue to call out anyone who seeks to scuttle the party for a cult of personality. Troll and hide rate away.


by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:25:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 6)

I am with you,  Alegre killed the momentum towards unity tonite.

Please ignore her and look at other diaries.

With the phrase "We can't wait until 2012 Hillary.  We need you to keep fighting for us now.  If you're up for the fight then so are millions of your supporters all over America."  she has lost all relevance tonite.

This is my last comment in this diary as it is not one that supports Democrats winning elections.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:31:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

Plus, I want to address this point you made specifically: "It's very easy to let Alegre's previous posts color your responses to her, but the content of this post does not warrant the vitriol you've shown here. You came to this diary ready for a fight, and understandably so." I don't like what she writes, it's true. But, I didn't come here ready for a fight. I came to look in on what her take might be on this historic night. I came to see what her tone would be, and it's clear she hopes McCain will win. That's why I chose to call it troll-ISH behavior. "Play defense, not offense. We're on the same team, so unless your teammate steps out of line, don't throw elbows." This is patently false, I fear. We are not on the same team. Looking to 2012 as the next stop is one minuscule step away from advocating a vote for John McCain. I'm on the Democratic team, while diarists like this are on the Hillary Clinton team, at all costs. If we can't call these people on their behavior in a Democratic forum without fear of reprisal we give it over to them and their anti-Democratic messages.
by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:34:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

Well Mike, two things:

First, she's not looking to 2012. She's saying that she and others don't want to wait for Hillary to run again. She chose 2012 because she doesn't think Obama will win. I think this is a needless buzzkill for people like me who are riding incredibly high on the most exciting candidate to come out of the party since JFK, but based on everything she's said and written, its her genuine belief. The sentiment is pretty clearly, "We can't wait for you to run later, we need you now," not, "If you don't run now, here's hoping Obama loses and you get your next shot sooner rather than later." It's still, in my opinion, a needlessly pessimistic view, but I think it does nothing more than color the phrasing of a fair, if disagreed with sentiment ("Hillary now, not later").

Second, you're right about the ratings. The ratings are not a place to express myself; that's the comments. The ratings are a place to report abuse, and while I believe you've been hypersensitive, your reactions aren't abuse.

Thanks for engaging me, Mike. I love these communities because of people like you who are willing to dissect their motivations and the motivations of others. I hope Senator Clinton suspends her campaign soon for the sake of the party; the potential benefits to her are so unlikely and the definite costs to the nominee are so great. When that happens, I hope Alegre, Texasdarlin, and the rest of Hillary's most ardent supporters will prove their democratic metel by supporting Obama. I guess we'll find out who's on what team soon enough. In the meantime, I'm glad you're on mine. The people in this party make me as proud as the platform does.

PS. I've fixed my ratings for you. Just please do try not to throw gasoline on a fire. Even if its intentional, these diaries are just a match. Comments and attention are the fuel that makes them incendiary.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:54:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 3)

Alegre said: Hillary - we're still waiting at the foot of that mountain and you're the only one who can beat McCain and help our nation climb back up to the top. She then ended with: We can't wait until 2012 Hillary. I appreciate your dialog penguin. I really do. The problem I have, and the reason I feel outraged, is that I have a 1.5 year old son and a daughter on the way in July. I want to raise them in a safer world. I want them to have the benefit of the greatest democracy on the face of the earth with an education system that they can be proud of, and a healthcare system that works. I want them to grow up knowing that war isn't the answer to our problems unless all avenues have been explored to avoid it. Hillary Clinton would deliver those things, and for that I love her. Each of the other candidates for the Democratic nomination would deliver those things and for that I love them. I chose Barack Obama for my money and labor. I know he'll also deliver those things, and the reality is he's won the nomination. As a Democrat, it has to be about more than a cynical attachment to a single candidate. It's unrealistic and ultimately counterproductive to believe that Clinton will overturn the swell of support that we saw for Obama tonight. She has a say in what happens from here on out because she's a powerful member of the party and a formidable person. What I can't stomach is any notion that she's the only hope and that we have to scuttle the party by running this thing to the convention, contesting everything that's gone on so far, and leave John McCain to laugh in our faces as we piss away the country. That's not Democratic and that's EXACTLY what both Jerome and Kos wrote about in Crashing the Gates. We've handed this nation over to the GOP with behavior just like this, and it will happen again unless we decide that our nominee, who is Barack Obama as of tonight, will have our support and our effort. My children's lives are the cause that I'm passionately fighting for, and I won't have people like Alegre working against them, while claiming to be Democrats. Unity starts tonight, and that doesn't include bullshit talk of 2012.
by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:14:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 1)

I agree on all points. My issue was with you labeling the diary as trollish. Counter-productive? Absolutely. Short-sighted? Incredibly. Foolish and incorrect? Very likely.

But trollish? Intended to damage Democratic causes or persons? Crafted to bait outrage? I think not.

My problem is not that you have a problem with Alegre; I do too. I don't mind that you have a problem with this specific diary either; I think its foolish and counterproductive. Nonetheless, your vitriol and choice of words should be reserved for diaries that are truly trollish. I understand wanting ideas and viewpoints which damage Democratic prospects to just go away quickly and therefore opposing them voraciously, but the fact is that this is well within the scope of progressive dialogue, and the attempt to squelch parts of that dialogue that threaten our electoral success, while tempting considering all of our near-losses, is simply not part of the netroots community, and it is that sort of idea intolerance that led to the rift we're now trying to heal.

Call it out as wrong. Call it out as dumb. Call it out as a waste of democratic energy. But don't call an honest opinion delivered without venom trolling.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

With all good intentions towards you penguin, tell that to my kids. Tell them why bitter and divisive people split the party and got yet another right winger elected. Tell them why this kind of nonsense is rec'ed to the top of the list at a Democratic forum every time it's posted and gets ample enough airtime that it find legitimacy.

It's not Democratic. It's not Progressive. It's single-minded, tunnel vision with the intent to deliver for one candidate at the expense of all else. How in the world can we call this NetRoots. It spits in the face of everything that Jerome and Kos wrote about in the "This Ain't No Party" chapter of "Crashing the Gates."

I don't engage Alegre or many of the others with similar reasoning here at MyDD for the simple reason that their candidate was running in contested elections. I disagreed with them and found much of their writing awful. Tonight is a very different story. The implication that Obama won't win and that Hillary will carry the mantle in 2012 serves no NetRoots purpose other than to drive people away from the person who was named the presumptive nominee. It's designed to create the impression that we've put the party in danger.

What really puts the party in danger is sentiment like this that suggests we're going to lose. There's nothing about this dialog that contributed to the election of a Democrat to the highest office. Nothing. It is driven by a cult of personality movement that discredits everything that Hillary Clinton has worked for as a Democrat. It places her above the party on the night when the party has loudly spoken to the world about who will be carrying our banner into battle. I can't stomach that.


by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

shrug Agreed. It's still not trolling.


M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:51:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

Mike, I was gonna tell you why I, an Obama supporter, troll rated you.  But, someone already took the words from my mouth.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:26:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (none / 0)

Look at what I said in response to that and tell me I'm wrong.
by mikeplugh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:37:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not cool. (2.00 / 1)

You're not wrong mike.  The ratings abuse that happens here is unbelievable.  


by cato on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:27:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why does it hurt Obama to finish properly? (none / 0)


by itsadryheat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:51:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why does it hurt Obama to finish properly? (none / 0)

He did.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:13:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One one point I hope we all agree (2.00 / 2)

"2012 will be the re-election campaign for President Obama, just as it would have been if Clinton, Edwards, Biden, Kucinich, Richardson, or any other Democrat won the nomination."

Absolutely. And anyone who says otherwise I would conclude doesn't have the best interests of the Democratic party, or the country, at heart.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Remember when I used to ask you (2.00 / 9)

why you wouldn't support the Democratic nominee?

It makes sense now.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's all about 2012 (2.00 / 3)

she knows her war voted makes it impossible to be veep, cuz we'd have to give up that that line of attackt (ie McSame voted for the quagmire).

it's all about setting up 2012 run against a 76 year old mcSame.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:28:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it's all about 2012 (none / 0)

Are you kidding me? Thousands of dead iraqis, iranians, and american soldiers are glad its all about hills v macsame in 2012. Pathetic!


Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:43:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you're silly (none / 0)

she voted for the war.  

she still refuses to say her vote was a mistake.

chomp on that.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're silly (2.00 / 1)

my bad, i am silly.
I missed the snark and thought you were advocating the 2012 strategy.

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Well we're all on the same page now. Si se puede!
Now let's beat ol' man McCain.
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:08:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (1.86 / 15)

Beating McCain was never her priority; electing Hillary was. As Obama became more of an obstacle, the priority remained electing Hillary, but also shifted to defeating Obama. Now Clinton's chances have been reduced to zero, the only objective left is to undermine Obama.

This was never about McCain.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:11:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 5)

I dont believe the diarist cares about beating McCain.

She practically endorsed him tonight.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

MY GOD give the woman a chance (none / 0)

to deal with it and grieve. Hillary herself hasn't even conceded yet.  

Attacking this diarist for not "focusing on beating Mccain" right now, is highly insensitive.  It reminds me of when my friend's partner died and his mom called him the very next day and said "you can't just mope around for the rest of your life!"  

People became very emotionally invested in their candidate.  Give people a chance to deal with it-  they'll come back to the overall good of the party when they are ready.  


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Alegre is not Hillary Clinton, and Hillary Clinton (none / 0)

was very complimentary toward Barack Obama tonight.  Moreover, she's made it clear 100% of the times she's been asked, with great enthusiasm, and without a moment's hesitation (unlike Michelle Obama and that's a fact and not a dig at Michelle) that she would support Barack Obama with all her heart and soul if she is officially not the nominee.

So, why are you reading Alegre's words, and attacking Hillary Clinton?  


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Really? (none / 0)

I'm sorry, when did Hillary Clinton refer to Barack Obama in her speech?


by shalca on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:21:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So you didn't read the diary you're commenting in? (none / 0)

This is from this very diary that you are commenting in:

I want to start tonight by congratulating Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run. Senator Obama has inspired so many Americans to care about politics and empowered so many more to get involved, and our party and our democracy is stronger and more vibrant as a result. So, we are grateful, and it has been an honor to contest these primaries with him, just as it is an honor to call him my friend. And tonight, I would like all of us to take a moment to recognize him and his supporters for all they have accomplished.

Gee, what a classless bitch who is destroying the party, and just couldn't bother to praise her opponent. /snark


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 4)

It was a great speech! Moving, and right on point.

My favorite line was how she was standing up for the 18 million people who voted for her.


by OtherLisa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:11:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (1.89 / 19)

She's not standing up for them if her actions hurt the Democratic party.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (none / 0)

Caldonia,
Why did you downrate me?
We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:31:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 12)

It was a rather ungracious speech. She couldn't even acknowledge Obama's win, aside from the boilerplate recognition of his running a strong race.

I'm not saying she had to throw in the towel and tell her supporters to shut off the lights before they left. But her speech was defiant verging on  disrespectful, as if we've got another month of primaries to go. She keeps demanding respect and deference, but it would help if she returned the favor.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:38:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 6)

...not to mention she's still making her electability argument, including the standard false "popular vote lead" claim, to no one in particular. She's making a case to non-existent superdelegates.

I mean, there's really no way for her to give a speech that talks about the issues she cares about, goes after republicans, and rallies her supporters without putting down Obama or implying there's still somewhere to go with this race??


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:56:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It was a horrible, egocentric speech (none / 0)

I I I I
Get the hook!
by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:33:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (none / 0)

uprated for ratings abuse


by alyssa chaos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 2)

Why on earth would she take it to the credentials committee? Even if she got ALL the votes from MI and FL and got full seating of the delegates, she still doesn't have enough delegates to win?

What exactly would taking it to the credentials committee do?


by Mordecai on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:11:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Supers don't count for the magic number! (1.50 / 2)

It has to be pledged to clinch the nomination before convention unless you can drive out the competition.  AOL got the headline right tonight:

"OBAMA DECLARES HIMSELF NOMINEE!"

He has not won.  He has a lot of promises of votes but there isn't even a list in the press of who he is counting!

This afternoon did you here the names of supers for Obama who changed over to Hillary?  Did you even hear the names of the ones who are supposed wot have voted for mim?  On CNN they panted through their coun tdown of" 6 more needed. wwe have another one! Now five more needed"!  Obama was not even giving them the names! They just swallowed it all.

What happened to the rules?  Donna didn't help with that,duh.

What Hillary says and knows is that neither of them clinched it.  All that happened is that the Primary Season came to an end!  With no winner, it goes to the convention, usually.  She could stop it if she concedes.  Otherwise is is work this summer to gather the suppers for the vote in Denver.  Watch the Republicans go after Obam.  Do some stirring up of support for the Psrty and getting voters registered and thinking about the fall.  After the convention, if she has lost, she works on party unity.  If he has lost, he does it.

Hillary also needs some time this summer to interview and consider Vice Presidential candidates so that when the vote finally happens in August, people understand the slates.

And we have to clean up from Saturday's massacre of democratic values.

This "assumption" that her staying would be wierd, disruptive or hurtful is not appropropriate and certainly not according to the rules


by itsadryheat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:33:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Supers don't count for the magic number! (none / 0)

No.

No.

No.

He has won.  That is all.  No 'suppers' for  Denver.  No Vice Presidential considerations.  Her staying would be wierd, disruptive, and hurtful.  He clinched it.  Let it go.


We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And clowns.
by haremoor on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:21:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Supers don't count for the magic number! (none / 0)

Stop making things up.  Pledged delegates are no different than Supers.  It is just a promise to vote, they are not bound.  The pledge of a super is just as valid.  He is the nominee.  It's time to accept that.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:52:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Supers don't count for the magic number! (none / 0)

Where did I see the list of supers? you think CNN, etc. didn't have names?  Then how did they keep announcing who they are?

Are you kidding me? I saw them all the places they are published.

Best place to look: http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:01:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Refusing to Acknowledge Obama as the nominee (none / 0)

How shameful of her.  How high can she raise her head now?!

Not very classy in defeat.  She has earned further scorn on this monumental and historic night.  


by optimusprime on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 1)

More like a polished turd.

Last night was a great night for Hillary Clinton to congratulate Obama for his success.  Instead she decided to go with more of the same.

If she were truly interested in unity, she would stop holding this party hostage.

If you were truly interested in unity and what is best for the party, you would stop positioning for 2012 and focus on the upcoming general election.

Hillary seems determined not to leave on a positive or high note.  She is determined to be as divisive as possible.  And that is why she lost.


by masterxi43 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:14:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And you should Hold Your Head High, alegre. (none / 0)

You were a passionate advocate for Senator Clinton in environments that were very difficult.  You have have endured many personal attacks and insults and you stayed the course.  It was not easy, but you gave all you had to help Hillary in any way you could.  You should be proud of your effort.

Take care, alegre.


by TomP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:01:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hold Your Head High Hillary (2.00 / 1)

If Obama can't beat McCain, it will be in great part because the Democratic Party could not come together.  And how could that happen?  I can't figure it out. Any way you slice it, the choice is crystal clear. Obama and Clinton are so similar on so many of the important issues that we care about, and they stand in stark contrast with the policies of John McCain.

The primary is over, we have our nominee.  It's time to come together to fight for the ideals that we hold so dear.  It's time to come together to improve the lives of all Americans.  It's time to come together, period.  


by Chili Dogg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:26:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 9)

join us as a valued member of the dKos community.


by bobdoleisevil on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:43 PM EST

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

I think she's burned that bridge.


by reconad on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No she hasn't. (2.00 / 4)


by bobdoleisevil on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:56:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bob, for years I admired kos (1.75 / 8)

but it's been taken over by hateful, vicious people I do not recognize as Democrats. Seriously, the day the party is dominated by that type (God forbid), is the day I leave it.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:27:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (2.00 / 1)

If you support people who wish Obama to lose to McCain, because that would increase Hillary's chances of being president in 2012, then the Democratic Party doesn't want you anyway.

So your "threat" is hollow.

(And I voted twice for Hillary for Senate, and would have worked myself to the bone for her as nominee.)


by JoeW on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:35:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (2.00 / 3)

Hold on a moment Joe. That's not what I said, and not what I meant. I commented on a site I frequented for years that I no longer recognize or approve of, and that is all.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:48:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (2.00 / 2)

Kos's reclist currently:

IT'S HERE! TimeWarner caps Tubes with tiered-bandwidth: 5g/$30
by rhfactor

329 comments (112 new)
Tear Jerking Photos - (Updated)
by Al Rodgers

204 comments (204 new)
Congratulations, From a Clinton Supporter
by Angry Mouse

853 comments (853 new)
Tonights Official Money Bomb for OBAMA!!!! $10,000,000 GOAL!!!
by NMDan

393 comments (189 new)
McCain, Confused, Tees Self Up for Obama's Driver
by LithiumCola

211 comments (211 new)
For my ancestors: Oh Happy Day!!
by CocoaLove

587 comments (587 new)
Waxman Closing in on Cheney's Role in Outing Plame
by emptywheel

383 comments (383 new)
Live From the Xcel Floor: The St. Paul Obama Rally, Liveblogged

Not suggesting you go back to commenting there, but there's lots worth reading.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:52:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But that is what Alegre has said in this diary n/t (1.00 / 1)


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:21:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (none / 0)

The party IS,  the blogospphere consists of the most dedicated members of our party.

The nomination war is over, the only disagreement you have with anybody is not supporting Clinton.

Is there anything else important to you?


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (2.00 / 2)

Nope, and take your troll rate abusing ass elsewhere. If his supporters consisted only of people like yourself, Obama wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting my vote. Now scoot.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:44:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bob, for years I admired kos (none / 0)

Is national security an issue to you?

Is the economy?

Your only agenda is dedicated to a single human being.

I have never scene you or Alegre speak to a single issue.

Please for the sake of sanity just give me a couple look I can look past the limited image of yourself that you portray.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:49:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh get over yourself (2.00 / 2)

I didn't even mention Obama. I addressed Daily Kos specifically, PERIOD.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:07:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not really (1.00 / 1)

Now you're being intellectually inconsistent, you're talking about Obama supporters that are at Daily Kos (I think--sort of hard to determine with your bitter tone).


by Regenman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

Interesting question.  How many progressive blogs/bloggers (e.g. Larry Johnson, alegre, Jeralyn Merritt) have destroyed their credibility in this election?


I am not a crook!
by username on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:59:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

Progressives are a forgiving lot. Once Hillary accepts reality and tosses in the towel and gets behind our nominee all but the most diehard dead enders will come around and those that won't probably weren't really progressives in the first place.

Hell I hated Kerry as the nominee but I spent pretty much every day of 2004 defending him in various forums.

The problem is that this is the first defeat Hillary and Bill have faced in decades and I think they really just can't understand it they got so close and still lost. I recognize that it's hard for them.

I disagree with Hillary Clinton on many things but I do believe that she is sincere in her support of democratic principles I may disagree intensely with their methods but I recognize that they are not evil incarnate.

I think she like many of her generation are jaded and have lost faith in that which drove them into politics in the first place. My hope is that in defeat they will rediscover some of that spirit and optimism that motivated them to work on McGovern's campaign way back in 68.


by Skex on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

I think almost everyone less loony than Larry Johnson will come around (LJ was still smearing Obama at full speed last time I checked).  But once they've shown themselves capable of such a level of reality denial and partisan rancor, it's hard to take them seriously on other issues.


I am not a crook!
by username on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

no burnt bridges.
she would be welcomed back as long as she supports our democratic nominee.

Because I wont trade humanity for patriotism!
by Drewid on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 7)

Is there any reason to think DKos has improved? I made the mistake of checking what was touted as a "reasonable" diary the other day and was disappointed by the diary and shocked at how hateful the comments had become. At this point I agree with Obama about DailyKos.


by souvarine on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 5)

Honestly, I prefer MyDD to DKos. The simple layout is easier to see and to read. DKos also has "big site" syndrome, where comments and diaries fly by sometimes without being discussed.

Plus, you always get some great humor here with some of the trolls.


by TCQuad on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (1.90 / 22)

I'll tell you one thing, as someone who has been a regular here and at Daily Kos since 2002:

Troll diaries don't rise to the top of the rec list at Daily Kos.  Today was an embarrassment for MyDD, what with some of the diaries being promoted.

Specifically regarding Alegre and her perennially recommended diaries: I know of no favorite diarist at Daily Kos who would dream of filling a diary with unsubstantiated assertions, then refuse to back them up.  Yet I have never seen Alegre respond to polite requests that she back up her claims.  Never.  Her diaries therefore descend into an odd mix of echo-chamber you tell 'em! and snarky jibes.  I think it's all kind of funny, but it's nevertheless embarrassing that MyDD's most popular diarist cannot muster the integrity and/or gray matter to defend her claims.

And when she's challenged, this diarist who is so quick to level the charge of sexism tries to dismiss the posters with the sexist and racially charged "Obama boyz."


by deminva on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:15:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 4)

And then she somehow thought it would be reasonable to TR you instead of respond to the truth.

Bet she gets away with it somehow, since there apparently is a different set of rules for "Alegre and the Deadenders" (which would be an awesome inde rock band name BTW) than there is for everyone else.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 9)

Instead of rating me down, Alegre, why don't you prove me wrong by backing up your core assertion of the past several months: that Clinton "leads in the popular vote."  You won't do it, because you're a coward, and because literally hundreds of posters have pointed out in your stilted diaries the gaping holes in an argument that purports to find fairness in comparing vote totals coming out of primaries and caucuses.

But don't be a coward this once.  Tell me one thing: Take just two states -- Minnesota, which Obama won by 34 points, and Kentucky, which Clinton won by 35.  Given Minnesota's larger population and far prouder recent history as a blue state, it has 72 pledged delegates to Kentucky's 51.  And Obama emerged from those two contests with a one-delegate advantage.  Yet when you count the popular vote, Kentucky's primary overwhelms Minnesota's caucus, leading to more than a 170,000-vote margin for Clinton.  How is that fair, or meaningful, or respectful of the intentions of the Minnesotans who voted?

Oh, and don't try to dismiss me as one of the "Obama boyz," because that racist shit no longer plays around here.


by deminva on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:45:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

OOOOHHHHHH ALEGRE got called the "C-WORD"

well ALEGRE  you got called out as a coward
care to answer ?


President-elect Barack Obama spent the day thanking the people who helped him win the election. Obama's first phone call was to Sarah Palin.
by wellinformed on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (none / 0)

IOU a MOJO


President-elect Barack Obama spent the day thanking the people who helped him win the election. Obama's first phone call was to Sarah Palin.
by wellinformed on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:31:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 1)

yup ~ agree 100%


by pholkhero on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:19:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Diary rescue (2.00 / 1)

The daily diary rescue at Kos is an invaluable asset.

The Rescue Rangers do a great service for those of us who want to read well-written, issue-oriented pieces without wading through the ever-increasing crap that inevitably gets posted on such a large site, especially during this primary.

It's usually up by 10 central.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (2.00 / 1)

You must be joking about easier to read.  This site needs major work.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:41:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Time to give it up, Alegre. Come back and (