Michael Moore comes off the fence

Michael Moore has been awfully quiet this election season, but no more. He doesn't seem to be bothered much by the fact that votes in his home state of Michigan aren't counting; though he doesn't get specific, my sense is that it has something to do with the rules.

Well, like me, Michael is particularly nauseated by the campaign that has been run by the Clintons. Well, read Michael for yourself.

I haven't spoken publicly 'til now as to who I would vote for, primarily for two reasons: 1) Who cares?; and 2) I (and most people I know) don't give a rat's ass whose name is on the ballot in November, as long as there's a picture of JFK and FDR riding a donkey at the top of the ballot, and the word "Democratic" next to the candidate's name.

Seriously, I know so many people who don't care if the name under the Big "D" is Dancer, Prancer, Clinton or Blitzen. It can be Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Barry Obama or the Dalai Lama.

Well, that sounded good last year, but over the past two months, the actions and words of Hillary Clinton have gone from being merely disappointing to downright disgusting. I guess the debate last week was the final straw. I've watched Senator Clinton and her husband play this game of appealing to the worst side of white people, but last Wednesday, when she hurled the name "Farrakhan" out of nowhere, well that's when the silly season came to an early end for me. She said the "F" word to scare white people, pure and simple. Of course, Obama has no connection to Farrakhan. But, according to Senator Clinton, Obama's pastor does -- AND the "church bulletin" once included a Los Angeles Times op-ed from some guy with Hamas! No, not the church bulletin!

This sleazy attempt to smear Obama was brilliantly explained the following night by Stephen Colbert. He pointed out that if Obama is supported by Ted Kennedy, who is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is led by a Pope who was in the Hitler Youth, that can mean only one thing: OBAMA LOVES HITLER!

Yes, Senator Clinton, that's how you sounded. Like you were nuts. Like you were a bigot stoking the fires of stupidity. How sad that I would ever have to write those words about you. You have devoted your life to good causes and good deeds. And now to throw it all away for an office you can't win unless you smear the black man so much that the superdelegates cry "Uncle (Tom)" and give it all to you.

But that can't happen. You cast your die when you voted to start this bloody war. When you did that you were like Moses who lost it for a moment and, because of that, was prohibited from entering the Promised Land.

How sad for a country that wanted to see the first woman elected to the White House. That day will come -- but it won't be you. We'll have to wait for the current Democratic governor of Kansas to run in 2016 (you read it here first!).

There are those who say Obama isn't ready, or he's voted wrong on this or that. But that's looking at the trees and not the forest. What we are witnessing is not just a candidate but a profound, massive public movement for change. My endorsement is more for Obama The Movement than it is for Obama the candidate.

That is not to take anything away from this exceptional man. But what's going on is bigger than him at this point, and that's a good thing for the country. Because, when he wins in November, that Obama Movement is going to have to stay alert and active. Corporate America is not going to give up their hold on our government just because we say so. President Obama is going to need a nation of millions to stand behind him.



Display:


Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

Watch her try to leverage this against Obama.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:45:48 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

That was my first thought as well...Isn't Senator Obama such an elitist for accepting the nomination of ultraliberal Michael Moore????!?? Nevermind he made a great movie about my number one issue?!?!

Real Pennsylvanians won't stand for the liberal elite of Michigan telling them how to vote. Show the bullies who's boss!

God, these things just write themselves.


by amiches on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:42:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

What are you a REPUBLICAN???

Your attacking Moore for being Liberal on MYDD.COM its a FREAKING LIBERAL BLOG YOU IDIOT, perhaps your comments ought not write themselves on the WRONG FREAKING SITE!!! That last thing the democratic Blogs need is a bunch of conservatives hijacking it attacking every liberal for being liberals.


by edtastic on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Link to full Letter from Moore here (2.00 / 0)

Here's a link to the complete Michael Moore letter that is excerpted above:  My Vote's for Obama (if I could vote) ...by Michael Moore.


by Manic Lawyer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)


by Politicalslave on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:04:00 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

It's time for people to take a stand. Get off the fence. It's time to make history. I'm proud to support Senator Obama


by Politicalslave on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:06:36 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

Michael Moore has done more damage to this party than anyone since....well since I can remember.

It is fitting that he is supporting Obama.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:52:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Didn't take very long. (2.00 / 3)

Michael Moore may be extreme, but in Farenheit 911 was one of the first people to challenge the status quo on 9/11 and educated millions of people to the slime of the Bush administration. Since Moore was apt to endorse a Democrat in the general anyway, I don't think the Moore endorsement hurts Obama there, and while I'm not sure that it helps him in the primary, I personally think that Michael Moore has the right to endorse who he pleases, and his reasoning for endorsing Obama is sound.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Didn't take very long. (2.00 / 2)

Yes, he has the right to damage the party.

I agree.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Didn't take very long. (2.00 / 0)

Such an argument.  What does one reply?


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Didn't take very long. (2.00 / 0)

Please show evidence that Moore has "damaged the party." This sounds like a Republican line.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:52:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Extreme? No. (2.00 / 2)

I've never seen him as extreme.  I think of him more as common sense with a large megaphone.

Of course, Fahrenheit 911 shone a stark light on the establishment interests surrounding the poor decisions before and after the tragedy.  It's no wonder he should come under criticism from supporters of the establishment candidate who supported the subsequent war of lies.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:28:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Almost as much (2.00 / 4)

as MoveOn.org and all those Democratic activists showing up to vote and stuff, right?


"This election is not about ideology, it's about competence." -Michael Dukakis
by MBNYC on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Almost as much (2.00 / 1)

When this is over they won't have anyone left to call friend and will have to go to LGF to rant and rave about the evil Democrats.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and another troll post from you (1.00 / 0)

so anyone who doesw not toe YOUR line is an LGF'er and a closet repuke? nice broad brush tarring, and such an elegant way to show what a 'big tent' you would like to see torn down.


by zerosumgame on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

How has he done any damage to the party?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:49:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

That's Idiotic

Morore is a real Working Class Hero

It's fitting that he would reject the corprotist status quo candidate, who supported NAFTA.


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:01:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 0)

That may be, but he also have the gall to stand up against this war when it wasn't popular to do so.  

If Clinton had had the same guts, I've no doubt she'd be the nominee by now.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 10:13:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes damn this.. (2.00 / 0)

..champion of the working class.

How DARE he stand up for them?


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

Shocking. Never been a big fan--and I think, if anything, this would cause him to lose support nationwide, not gain anything. While Moore has had some good points throughout his career, just a little too radical for me.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:50:48 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 3)

Obama draws support from the full ideological spectrum of the party. From Move On and Moore to Red  State elected Democrats and PA Senator Bob Casey.


by hankg on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:59:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

You forgot a few other parts where he isn't fairing so well: working class Dems, older Dems, Latinos, and GLBT.

Or are those groups just "old politics"?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 2)

This is part of the Clinton myth. She's a little ahead in those areas, but the only place she consistently has an advantage is in white women over 60.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 2)

For talking about math, you sure have it wrong. Since I'm about to go to bed, I won't bother to look for the exit polling numbers, but I do know this off the top of my head: Clinton's strength with Latinos has been unmatched by Obama, not a "little better", and the only two states with GLBT exit polling show her leading at a 70-30 clip with that group, and with the show of GLBT outreach for her in this election, I'd be willing to bet the farm that nationwide she recieves that same number of support from GLBT.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:24:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

You do realize you're going to have to provide a link for those poll numbers, right?


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (1.00 / 0)

I've wondered why Obama is being shunned by gays.

I continue to wonder.

McLame, however, will have no qualms about stating why HE thinks Obama isn't doing so well there.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 1)

He's being shunned for remarks like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZzWYCxjd nY


by mjc888 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:51:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

lol, I highly doubt that.


by smoothmedia on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 2)

Are you gay?  I am.  

Two topics consistently come up in gay circles...this remark and his support of Donnie McClurkin.


by mjc888 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:02:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

I'm an ally.  Two comments consistently come up with reference to HRC.  They're DOMA and DADT.  Period.  Laws speak a hell of a lot louder than a crazy supporter.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (1.00 / 2)

Please provide a link that you're an ally.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:12:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

Providing a link on my personal identity is different from asking for a link for poll numbers.  P.S. I'm HR'ing you for asking for information that would out my identity.  Please review site rules.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:35:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (1.00 / 0)

"""I'm HR'ing you"""

Whats that, like ten times today?

Your click finger must be getting sore.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 1)

What about his stance on repealing the DOMA? Does that come up?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:51:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

I'm gay. I'm still smarting from the Defense of Marriage Act, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the fact that Clinton advised Kerry to throw gays under the bus.

I don't care who sings in a gospel choir. I care that Obama said he'd get rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (none / 0)

Well then, with all due respect, people in "gay circles" need to start focusing on more important substantive issues.

Obama is as pro-gay rights as Clinton in terms of policy, and that's all that should matter.


by smoothmedia on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

Again, the topic was polls, please provide a link.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (1.00 / 0)

The diarist sets the topic, not you.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:04:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (none / 0)

Your comment changed the topic.  The topic that you set was polls showing GLBT breaking 70-30 for Clinton.  Please provide a link.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (1.00 / 0)

Well, since I never said anything of the sort, I guess you're going to have to provide a link.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (none / 0)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

There were, like I said, only two states that had GLBT people exit polled-
New York state-
Yes

(7%)

59%-Clinton

3%-Edwards

36%-Obama

So correction on that, it's only a 26 point lead there.

California
Are You Gay, Lesbian or Bisexual?

Clinton

Edwards

Obama

Yes

(4%)

63%-Clinton

1%-Edwards

29%-Obama

So, my apologies, roughly, Hillary leads that vote by around 23-25 points, given the poll.

You are also free to peruse those exit polls in almost every single state where there is a sizable Latino population to see her dominant lead with Latinos in exit polling. Illinois may be the exception. (obviously)

     


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (none / 0)

The link you gave was to current delegate counts.  Where are the exit polls that you cite in your comment?

But thank you for at least attempting to provide evidence for your citation.  You would think I was asking the other guy to prove the quadratic formula.


by The Distillery on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 01:01:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Except he's not doing so badly there (2.00 / 0)

I'm a gay person supporting Obama.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Either Dem will be strong in the GE (none / 0)

Obama won Latinos in VA and he will win them in the general by large numbers. The Republicans are now the anti-Hispanic party  just like they made them selves the anti-African-American party with the Southern strategy. The senior vote is where Obama will be really weak but that will be more then offset by unprecedented youth and African-American turnout of both genders. McCain's age is a bigger problem then Obama's race or Hillary's gender  if she is the nominee.

With Iraq on the precipice of chaos again after a year of surge, unemployment headed for over 6% and housing prices collapsing, wiping out any assets that middle class Americans thought they had this will not be a good year for Republicans.


by hankg on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:56:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

You've GOT to be kidding me. Moore is the biggest champion the working class Dems have.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 3)

I like Michael Moore, but it sounds like he's caught up in the drama of the campaign rather than the issues.

The entire point of "Sicko" was to back universal health care, and it is sad to see him turn his back on that argument.


by mjc888 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:13:55 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 3)

Neither candidate has universal health care and neither backs what we really need which is a single payer system. If Michael Moore is fine with the significant improvement in the health care mess made by Obama's plan, then maybe instead of saying he's "turning his back", you might want to ask yourself why he's not supporting Hillary.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:35:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

I ask myself why any democrat in his right mind would want MMoore's backing, considering he turned us into laughinstocks with his 911 bunk.

And what a coward.  He never could bring himself to come right out and say it, that Bush engineered 911.  He used innuendo, smear tactics, so to speak.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:40:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

I recently became friends with a very liberal guy that was born and raised in Flint.

I assumed that he loved Michael Moore (see "Roger & Me"), but he said that Flint, for the most part, is upset with him.

"Moore made Flint look like the armpit of the country and then fled the city to become a star in Hollywood."

Ouch.


by mjc888 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:48:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

You've completely gone off the deep end.  See you later.  Next harbor, Crazyville.

If you're going to insult an upstanding member of the Democratic Party, please provide a link.

It's not appropriate for someone to bash HRC without producing the evidence, and it's not appropriate to smear Michael Moore without the evidence.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:48:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (1.00 / 0)

A link to what?

Is that all you ever do, ask for a link?

Get a life.  Or better yet...(drumrolll)

Away with thee...back to kos.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:06:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 0)

When you post bogus crap, yes.  I ask you to provide a link.  Why?  Because I know you can't because you made it up.


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:39:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bunk? (2.00 / 1)

with his 911 bunk
The word 'bunk' implies deceit.  Please point me to a substantial factual error in 911 that made any Democrat a laughingstock.

IMO in fact, Moore is the only one with his eye on the ball in that tragedy.  Lots of CT nutjobs try to distract attention with ridiculous controlled demolition theories, etc;  but the real conspiracy was the cozy relationships between Bush et al and the Saudis and other oil interests before and after the actual event.  

Follow the money.  Who benefits?  Just a hint, gas is now averaging >$3.50/gallon; we're spending billions with defense contractors; and Bush's buddies in the Saudi royal family and the defense industry are laughing all the way to the bank while you try to shoot the messenger.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:36:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bunk? (1.00 / 1)

What part of that movie was fact?  I think the only thing he got right was that we invaded.  The rest was about the financial connections between the Bush family and powerful oil families in the Middle East.  He depicted the American government has having invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq to profit private companies WITHOUT ANY FREAKING PROOF.

And I don't know what happened in the States (I've lived overseas since '03), but non-Americans bought it hook, line, and sinker.  I don't like George Bush.  I voted against him twice.  I did not support the war in Iraq, but to throw out accusations that he did it for money with no proof just made AMERICA look bad.  The Bush government is corrupt and incompetent.  But they launched a war to profit private companies?

Many of you may have enjoyed a negative depiction of George Bush, but make no mistake, all Americans were tarnished thanks that filth produced by Michael Moore.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bunk? (2.00 / 0)

I do not recall any accusations made in that movie.  Moore presented the facts of the various business and personal relationships and left viewers to draw their own conclusions.  You're clearly not happy with those you drew.  Fine; that's his point.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bunk? (1.00 / 0)

"""Lots of CT nutjobs try to distract attention with ridiculous controlled demolition theories, etc"""

WHo do you think started all of that idiocy in the mind of the indies?

Michael Moore.

Who do you think tied us to all of that idiocy in the mind of the indies?

Michael Moore.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bullshit. (2.00 / 0)

Moore said nothing of the kind.  Link?


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bullshit. (1.00 / 0)

Of course he didn't say it.  He didn't have the guts.

He insinuated it.  

He used smear tactics.

Playing off peoples' fears.

Sound familiar?


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:11:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bullshit. (2.00 / 0)

Please show a link disproving any important fact Moore provided in F911.

If you can't do that, then it's the facts doing the "insinuating."

Sorry you don't like them.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha. (2.00 / 0)

I really don't get where you're coming from here.  I mean, Moore presents verifiable facts regarding the cozy interrelationship between the Bush & Saudi Royal families, about some huge financial incentives for controlling Afghanistan by US and Saudi corporate interests, and about the utter failure of the Bush administration to probe Saudi interests prior to 9/11 and you think that's a smear than makes Dems look foolish?

That'd be laughable if it weren't a little scary.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

Here is what Michael Moore had to say about John Edwards' health care plan on January 2 of this year:

Edwards is the only one of the three front-runners who has a universal health care plan that will lead to the single-payer kind all other civilized countries have. His plan doesn't go as fast as I would like, but he is the only one who has correctly pointed out that the health insurance companies are the enemy and should not have a seat at the table.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/messag e/index.php?messageDate=2008-01-02

Now, as Elizabeth Edwards would point out, Hillary lifted her final health care plan almost wholesale from Edwards. So if Michael Moore believes that Edwards has a universal health care plan that will lead to the single-payer kind all other civilized countries have, then the same must hold true for Hillary.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:07:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

"The last straw was her race baiting last Wednesday."

I don't support either candidate and could care less who Micheal Moore supports but this charge of 'race baiting' is a real insight into your mind.  In fact your hatred of Hillary runs very deep indeed so deep it doesn't bother you to make such disgusting accusation.  The only race baiter is yourself.  Like an alchoholic you don't even know you have a problem.  Please keep this type of ignorant, provincial thinking within your own household there is no place for it in the public square!


by orionwest on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:40:50 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

Do you deny she brought up the F-word...Farrahkan?


by The Distillery on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

I can also say the word Farrahkan.

Watch:

Farrahkan.

And I'm still not racist!  /joydance


by bobbank on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:35:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

The race baiting started with the drug dealer comment.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:48:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

And therein lies the problem.

Obamatons use the race card whenever their candidate is challenged.

What connects drugs with race?

Something in your mind, no doubt.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:09:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

Please show me the links to Bill Clinton being asked if he was a drug dealer or George Bush being asked if he was a drug dealer.

If you can do that you have a point. If you can't my point is clear.

I know us black folks are ooooh too sensitive and all but if you can show that the two white guys who admitted drug use were questioned in such a manner I'll stop bringing up the drug-dealing comment.

Proceed.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not black (2.00 / 0)

..and I took the "drug dealer" questions, the focus on Wright, and the focus on Ayers (esp since Clinton commuted the sentences of convicted WU members) to all be racially charged.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

Did she bring up Farrakhan in the debate?  What relevant purpose did that serve other that a dog whistle reminder of the 'scary Muslim' smears and his race?  The answer?  None.  It was despicable.  Moore was right to cite that.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Moore's change of heart (2.00 / 1)

I like some of Moore's work; Roger & Me is a classic documentary, one of the best, and 9-11 was brave and useful.  Columbine, not so much and never saw Sicko because I don't need a movie to explain the virtues of single payer to me.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Moore one of the, if the not the highest profile Nader supporter in 2000?

Makes the following statement seem like a change of heart:

"2) I (and most people I know) don't give a rat's ass whose name is on the ballot in November, as long as there's a picture of JFK and FDR riding a donkey at the top of the ballot, and the word "Democratic" next to the candidate's name."


"We live entangled of webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:00:21 AM EST

Re: Moore's change of heart (none / 0)

Moore asked voters in swing states to vote Gore.

He wanted Nader to make a statement, not the difference.

Note he didn't support Nader in 2004.


by rhetoricus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 3)

Who cares...

Didn't he support Nader in 2000?  Saying there was no difference between the Repubs & Dems?

Shows a lack of judgement... so why should I care that he's come off the fence.

Hillary's health care plan doesn't leave 15 million people without health care, Michael "Sicko" Moore...


by goldilocks on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:12:41 AM EST

Neither plan leaves anyone without healthcare. (2.00 / 1)

But neither plan guarantees healthcare either.  Because neither plan is Universal Healthcare...only Kucinich was proposing that and he is no longer in this race.

Both candidates are advocating health insurance for everyone.  The only difference is in the mandates.  Both plans force people to buy it...Hillary's forces everyone, Obama's forces everyone who has children only.

That 15 million that's being tossed around like it is a fact?  That's the number of people Hillary says will not CHOOSE to buy health insurance even if it becomes affordable and available.  It's pulled right out of the air and is a valid as saying 1 person or 1 billion people.
Regardless of the number, nobody is being LEFT OUT of Obama's plan.  Everyone will have the same chance to buy it and the same affordable price.

There's very little difference between the two plans and neither one is universal healthcare.  The real difference is Hillary doesn't trust the American people to buy it if available and Obama does.  That's it.


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh Really? (none / 0)

John & Elizabeth Edwards seem to disagree with you.  And maybe that's why they haven't endorsed Obama... that & the fact they think he's not tough enough to be president.  

Elizabeth has been on tv praising Clinton's plan over Obama's.  From the Huffington post...

Edwards noted her preference for the health care plan devised by Hillary Clinton, stating that it's mandated coverage made it the only truly "universal" health plan between Clinton and Barack Obama: "It means every American has to be covered. Senator Obama means every child has to be covered. I think we need to go the full nine yards."

And speaking of that lack of endorsement for Obama from the Edwards, this from NY Magazine...

According to a Democratic strategist unaligned with any campaign but with knowledge of the situation gleaned from all three camps, the answer is simple: Obama blew it. Speaking to Edwards on the day he exited the race, Obama came across as glib and aloof. His response to Edwards's imprecations that he make poverty a central part of his agenda was shallow, perfunctory, pat. Clinton, by contrast, engaged Edwards in a lengthy policy discussion. Her affect was solicitous and respectful. When Clinton met Edwards face-to-face in North Carolina ten days later, her approach continued to impress; she even made headway with Elizabeth. Whereas in his Edwards sit-down, Obama dug himself in deeper, getting into a fight with Elizabeth about health care, insisting that his plan is universal (a position she considers a crock), high-handedly criticizing Clinton's plan (and by extension Edwards's) for its insurance mandate.


by goldilocks on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 2)

It seems to me revealing that Moore had to say that he is not so much endorsing the candidate as the movement.  Oh well; I'll still watch all his movies.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:25:25 AM EST

You are right. (2.00 / 1)

It is the movement that makes Obama special.  I think he's a great candidate but if you took the campaigns and the personalities out of the mix and just looked at their policy positions there is very little difference.

I support Obama partly because as his campaign moved from state to state they have built a democratic structure that will help us gain and keep a Democratic majority.  That's the party's goal, that's my goal and that's why Obama will win the nomination....because it is also the superdelegates' goal.


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:55:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right. (none / 0)

If you read Moore's endoresement it is not very complimentary, though.  I was thinking about writing a diary, but I'm not if that is where I want to put my effort today (and also I'm at work so comments are easier).

Basically his thesis is something like: Democrats are generally stupid and don't care much about a person's plans or qualifications, core issues like healthcare are option, and we should go with whichever candidate incites younger, more agitated voters.

It's a wierd statement, honestly, if you read it word for word.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right. (none / 0)

and my question is - where does the "movement" go once Obama is no longer on the scene?

are these new voters excited about the democratic party or Obama?  if the latter, we have problems, houston.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:21:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are right. (2.00 / 1)

That's the real magic here.  What he's doing is teaching them how to be activists.  It's not just how to get Obama elected, it's how the grassroots can become effective.

Here's an example:
My grandson is in college and he is so excited to be part of the political process he changed his major to poli-sci.  He's an Obama supporter but he wants to work for Dems from the local level on up.

Why is my grandson typical?  Because he is just a young 'kid' who likes to skateboard and snowboard and hang out with his friends.  It never occurred to him that he could have a real voice, a real say in who runs our country and what policies are pursued at the local, state and federal level.  Now he realizes government isn't something 'those guys in Washington' do whether we like it or not.  He feels like he is part of it now.

Seeing him become engaged on his own was a factor for me in my choice of candidate.


Swish. Nothing but net.
by GFORD on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hear, hear! (none / 0)


by Manic Lawyer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:29:27 AM EST

Damn hippy! (none / 0)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:47:27 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (1.33 / 3)

So he finally, uh, "weighed" in.  Interesting.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:54:06 AM EST

Oh, he's fat! He's fat! (2.00 / 1)

Sad.


by Bob Johnson on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ad hominem (2.00 / 1)

is always a fine alternative in the absence of substantive rebuttal.  


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think that's James Carville. (2.00 / 0)

But I'm not certain.


by Bob Johnson on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:07:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's to reBUTT? (1.00 / 0)

Who cares?  He's a talking head.  He probably just endorsed because he wanted attention.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:10:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sure the Clinton backers consider this (none / 0)

... black mark. No pun intended.

Though it is a telling commentary given Moore's obsession with universal health.


by Bob Johnson on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:03:43 AM EST

Michael Moore: Demon spawn (2.00 / 1)

As with all prominent Obama backers (witness the comments in this thread by Clinton supporters), the second Michael Moore backed Obama, he became demon spawn like so many good people before him.

I expect Carville to roll out a "fat" insult sometime today.


by Bob Johnson on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:06:42 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore: Demon spawn (1.00 / 0)

I have been demonizing Michael Moore since Farenheit 9/11 came out in 2004.  


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:13:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

I like MM - however, I disagree with his endorsement.  However, this is America and I defend his right to endorse anyone he chooses to.  I am surprised that he endorses Obama, due to his movie "Sicko".  But then again, he is endorsing the movement, not the candidate.  Remember, Michael Moore endorsed Nader in 2000 over GORE, because he felt Gore was just like GWB.  And promoted Nader in 2000.  

He does vote against the best interests of the country.  just saying.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:11:41 AM EST

Hope that Fence is Reinforced! (2.00 / 2)

KIDDING!

Now Michael can join MoveOn in "Hillary's Detention Room for Wayward Democrats"

Hope he brings plenty of snacks :)


by edmandspath on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:16:01 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

when was he on the fence????  i saw him on larry king months ago and he said that he preferred BO.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 10:41:39 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (2.00 / 1)

He wasn't really on the fence. I've heard him say before that he couldn't vote for Hillary because of the AUMF vote.

As for her bringing up the Farrakhan stuff... Granted, I disagree with that tactic, but it wasn't race-baiting. She's using every bit of ammo she has. She also said Obama's "bitter" remarks were elitist. Is that race-baiting, as well? Is she saying African Americans are elitist? That attack has nothing to do with race, and neither does this. Farrakhan is not disturbing because he's black. He repulses people because he's a hate-monger who says Judaism is a gutter religion, and he admires the hell out of Hitler. Oh... and come to think of it... Hitler was white. Does that mean Hillary's trying to draw a connection between Obama and Farrakhan, Farrakhan and Hitler/anti-Semitism? Uh-oh. Hillary's baiting white supremicists now. Will she stop at nothing?!?

Why do so many Obama supporters have to turn everything Hillary does into an evil, race-baiting scheme?

She said the "F" word to scare white people, pure and simple. Of course, Obama has no connection to Farrakhan. But, according to Senator Clinton, Obama's pastor does -- AND the "church bulletin" once included a Los Angeles Times op-ed from some guy with Hamas! No, not the church bulletin!

Again, I disagree with this tactic. However, in fairness, Wright does have a connection to Farrakhan. They know each other and actually traveled together. Obama has no direct connection to Farrakhan, but Wright most certainly does.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:00:17 AM EST

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

Does Hillary get asked to denounce and reject David Duke? Strom Thurmond? Jesse Helms? Of course not; nor should she. Obama having to answer for the conduct of Farrakhan is at least partially because the two share the same skin color.

Farrakhan's blackness is undeniably a part of his fear value to white voters. I don't see the same kind of fear of white supremacists like Duke.

I know that according to you guys, Hillary Clinton cannot possibly be using these tactics, but it's happened way too many times for it to be all a big coincidence. No matter; this will happen in the general too, and America will reject it just like they're rejecting it now.


by amiches on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

The difference is, David Duke, etc. didn't endorse Hillary, and as far as I'm aware, her pastor doesn't hang out with them. Again, I think this is an unpleasant, disagreeable line of attack for Hillary to take, but it isn't an example of race-baiting. She's trying to make Obama answer for the conduct of Farrakhan because he has a tenuous link to him (though Wright). It's a crap strategy, but it's not bigoted.

It hasn't "happened way too many times" to be a coincidence. People have claimed it's happened too many times. Every single one of the race-baiting myths has been debunked in one way or another, with the exception of Bill's admittedly reprehensible comments in SC, which Hillary probably had nothing to do with. As I've said before, adding multiple debunked theories together doesn't make any of them more valid. That's a logically incoherent argument. Zero plus zero does not equal one. Some of Obama's supporters see racism and race-baiting because they want to see it. Take, for example, people who freaked out about "NIG" and people who cried, "Racism -- she's calling him an uppity negro!" when Hillary said Hillary's Obama's "bitter" remarks came across as elitist. Also, the people who applied Bill's "fairy tale" comment to Obama's entire candidacy, when they were clearly taking him out of context (intentionally). Those people wanted to see race-baiting. So they did.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I really wish the media... (none / 0)

would make more of Micheal Moore's endorsement. While I like Moore, I think he was wrong the way he went after Charleston Heston. It came off like he was picking on an old man. Moore can be a divisive figure. I don't think that kind of behavior goes over well in places like PA.

What I'm trying to say is, Moore's endorsement will actually help Hillary Clinton.


by soyousay on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:21:05 AM EST

Re: I really wish the media... (none / 0)

well, in MM's defense, he filmed that bit in Bowling way before Heston announced he had Alzheimer's.  The movie came out around the time Heston announced his disease, but MM had no idea about it when he filmed it.

as far as picking on him, Heston promoted the NRA.  He needed to answer questions about an organization that blocks any time of reasonable gun control laws.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:25:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm just being honest... (none / 0)

Like I said before, I like Moore, but that part of the movie made me uncomfortable and that's before I knew Heston had Alzheimer's.


by soyousay on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:27:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Michael Moore comes off the fence (none / 0)

THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!! FOR HILLARY!!!!


by amiches on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:23:02 PM EST


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